AH: Hello, and welcome. Today I’m joined by Nick Denham, who some of you may know from previous work for Hertfordshire Music Service in participation and inclusion. Nick is now working in public health as a senior knowledge transfer facilitator, and that means he helps organisations to improve their use of data and evidence to improve the impact of their health and wellbeing services. And that also includes work with Hertfordshire’s Power of Music Centre of Excellence. So, welcome Nick. It’s great that we have a music advocate right at the centre of public health, and I’m really looking forward to hearing more about what it’s like on the inside.
ND: Thank you very much. Delighted to be here.
AH: Can you start by briefly describing your background, and particularly your route from music education into the work you’re doing now.
ND: Thank you. I’ll probably go back to teenage years and rattle through from there, because trying to think about it, it’s not necessarily a clear plan. So I started volunteering with Watford Mencap when I was in my teens in all sorts of different ways. I became a youth worker. I joined our district council, Three Rivers, in the south of Hertfordshire, where I was the community arts officer for about 10 years, and from there I then moved to Hertfordshire Music Service to work on inclusion projects, as you say, supporting vulnerable families around the county, and including working on the national music inclusion programme Changing Tracks, where with our paths crossed. From the music service on I moved into public health about three years ago, and there’s probably two strands of my work before public health that led me into public health. So I was increasingly finding through the music service that music was achieving additional specific personal and social outcomes for young people who were taking part in it. The work that we were doing with children with special educational needs and disabilities, where arts was very deliberately framed as a communication tool. And we were also increasingly interested in the connection between health and wellbeing through creative activities and involved in cultural activities. So the first strand is that music was achieving a lot more than musical outcomes. The second strand was around the amount of time spent while working for Hertfordshire Music Service with multiple agencies in arts and culture, in local authorities, but in the voluntary sector and other agencies too. That led in 2020 towards the Herts Year of Culture, where we were trying to just amplify the impact on the reach of individual organisations by coming up with sort of collective campaigns. And through that second strand working with multiple agencies, I bumped into loads of different colleagues from public health in those collaborations, and worked on sort of small culture and wellbeing projects, or incrementally over the period of time. So, there was quite a broad range of experiences, all involving culture, all involving collaborating with other people, but all involving having fun at the same time as well, and trying to achieve some fun outcomes for the people that we’re working with.
AH: That’s brilliant, Nick. And what a fascinating background, and so succinctly put. I bet there’s more you can say about that. But one of the things we spoke about a while ago was that there’s a Power of Music Centre of Excellence in Hertfordshire, and I’m really curious to find out about this, because I know nothing about it. So, can you explain what it is, and about the national Power of Music campaign, and the connection between the two, if any.
ND: Delighted to, because it’s really exciting. So, the Power of Music report was published in 2022. I think it was produced by UK Music and Music for Dementia, a big advocacy national campaign tool with government support and sign off. That evolved into having a link to it, a Power of Music Fund. So the Power of Music Fund is administered by the National Academy for Social Prescribing, or NASP for short, NASP, and a load of consortium partners. So through that Power of Music Fund there are local dementia choirs and groups being funded and with some small grants, and that fund also led to setting up a Centre of Excellence in Manchester that was looking at developing models for community music with people living with dementia. That’s being delivered by Manchester Camerata – they are an amazing organisation. The opportunity for the second Centre of Excellence came up in the autumn of 2024 which Hertfordshire applied to. We were really interested that the ambition for the second centre of excellence was to embed music in residential dementia care through training care home staff to use music on a daily basis in all sorts of different ways. So we were successful with that programme, and you’ll hear more about it, and the various different partners involved. We were successful in that. It started in May 2025 and we’re about halfway through our two years, and it’s fascinating.
AH: Yeah, it sounds that’s really interesting. And what we haven’t spoken about before is that Live Music Now are doing a lot of work in that area, so I’m not sure if you’re aware of that, but hoping to talk to them at some point about that, and on many other things they’re involved in.
ND: There are some fantastic partners in that consortium who I’ve only just been scratching the surface in what they do, because everyone’s so busy, but there’s such a range of brilliant work being done, particularly around sort of the links between music and dementia, and it’s, yeah, we’re still sort of scratching the surface of what we’re, what we’re picking up, but the opportunities are terrific.
AH: And what is the Centre of Excellence in Hertfordshire trying to achieve? Who are you training, and what does becoming, what I’ve heard about, which is a Music Champion, involve in practice?
ND: So, what I like about this Centre of Excellence is that the outcomes are really challenging, I think it’s fair to say. So the plan is to train care staff who are working in residential care settings. So those who are on shift patterns, and it could be the music co-ordinators, it could be any of the members of staff in those settings. And who may be working with people living with dementia, as well as other residents across their day to train them as Music Champions to use music therapeutically to inform their care, their daily care for people living with dementia, but also to inform the culture and change the culture of those settings of those residential homes by using music as creatively as possible across the whole setting. What it’s trying to achieve those, the four outcomes are really challenging. We need to be demonstrating the impact across resident wellbeing. So, how are individual residents’ moods changing, improving through music activities, the quality of care in those settings, workforce development, so how staff are feeling empowered, supported, more confident. Staff retention is one of the measures within there as well. And then the big outcome is the bit that I’m most fascinated in is the wider system benefits. So, with this programme that is relatively small and relatively confined around training care staff to use music in residential care settings to embed music therapeutically in dementia care. What is the ripple effect from that that can inform commissioners to be more interested in investing in or encouraging further use of music therapies or other creative therapies in those settings? So to open up a bigger conversation about culture change in the homes in the wider health and care sector about how it’s observed and recognised. So it’s really that culture change outcome is the one that really interests me.
AH: Yeah, and me too. I’m interested to hear more about that.
ND: So the training that we’re delivering, the bulk of the Centre of Excellence is focusing on the training of those staff in residential care settings. The model for the training is three days of face-to-face training. We’ve had groups of staff, up to sort of 15 or so, in a room at the same time receiving the training. The training is being co-ordinated and delivered by Herts Care Providers Association. I should probably say in brackets behind all the organisations I’m going to mention, they’re all fab. So HCPA delivers training for residential care homes to help them meet all sorts of regulatory criteria in terms of care standards. So they support training across the board, including Dementia Champion training. So, going to them with this proposal to talk about Music Champion training, like many other partners in this as well, we’re incredibly fortunate. They said, ‘Yes, we can do that. When do you want to start?’. So we brought in Music 24 which is an Arts Council national portfolio organisation with their specialism in live music making with vulnerable adults. They work in Hertfordshire and across some of our neighbouring areas as well. They’re another fab organisation. So, HCPA and Music 24 devised this in-person training to help those staff understand how to use music therapeutically. Tips and tricks on what you can do in those when you’re back in your setting. How music can be beneficial, different things to try, encouraging everyone to be more musical themselves, and how to then work with your staff teams to encourage them to be more musical. There’s a lot in it, but it’s all about confidence building for those staff to go back in and feel that they want to try something. But one of the best things of the training is, so I’m told, is the staff leaving on the third day with a box of musical instruments and musical kit that they can then go and use. And it’s a big, it’s deliberately, it’s a big clear plastic box with loads of brightly coloured stuff in it, not just small musical instruments, but also brightly coloured scarves that can be picked up and thrown in time, in rhythm with the music and all sorts of things as well. And then some tips and tricks and resources online and lots of encouragement. So that’s the toolbox we send them out with. And then they go to the settings and try them out and then come and get an observation from Graham at Music 24, more encouragement, and then the bit that seems to have the most impact of all the different elements of this is peer-to-peer conversations. So we get our Music Champions together on a monthly basis on Teams, on different days of the week, or different times of the day to sort of reflect shift-patterns, and all sorts of things like that. And I just love listening to our Music Champions chatting about what they’ve tried, what worked, what didn’t. Other people going, ‘Oh, I’ll have a go at that’ or ‘I tried it’ or ‘It didn’t work’. And the encouragement backwards and forwards is fantastic to hear. The examples of some of the things that we’re seeing are [laughs], last month one of the Music Champions talked about the silent disco that they’ve started in their home, and then described how individual residents were there listing to playlists on their own headphones, and then using some of the instruments or kit from the toolbox or other things or live instruments that might be knocking around in the building. There are free playlists available, that we’re promoting through another of our partners, Music For My Mind. Those playlists can be downloaded to identify music that people listened to when they were in their teens. But then you can adapt that to include all the rest of it as well. Even some of the really simple, important things like discussions over how to choose the most comfortable headphones for residents. So that they want to listen to music, they’re happy, it’s not uncomfortable, it’s not too loud, they’re not feeling that it’s, it’s a more pleasant experience to be listening to music on headphones, which is for some and isn’t for others. So all of these different things are sort of popping up from the training, which is fabulous, and the Music Champions talking about how it’s improving the depths of the relationships that they’re having really quickly with residents, is also fascinating.
AH: My goodness, you’ve summed that up so succinctly, but I bet there’s a wealth of background work to all of that, and all sorts of developing practice, and all sorts of learning coming from that. I’ve just got a couple of other questions. How many care homes are involved, or care home staff so far?
ND: We’re looking to reach 100 care homes across Hertfordshire. We’ve had Music Champions trained from about half of those so far, but the courses keep going through this through this second year as well, so we can mop up the rest of them. So that’s, so we’re looking at sort of hundreds of care staff directly receiving the training, and the ripple effect in their teams as well, and then the hopefully 1000s of residents, not just those necessarily living with dementia, but everyone else in the setting should be seeing some form of benefit from a more musical, a more encouraging setting and atmosphere and culture in those locations.
AH: And another question that’s probably best left till the last, but I’ll probably forget it if I don’t ask it now. So, for people who are doing this sort of work or interested in this sort of work around the UK or further afield, is there anywhere they can go to learn about your work, or are you planning any kind of more wide learning sharing?
ND: So one of the things I’m also really pleased with, with the ambition of the Centres of Excellence, is that all of the learning from Manchester and Hertfordshire and other projects funded through Power of Music will be shared openly and nationally. So, as we’ve been going through this process, we’ve been looking at little elements of the projects that we’ve been developing that we’ve had hiccups that we’ve had to get over, getting ethics approval for the research that we’re carrying out in support of it. Just taking bits of learning that we can take and then share widely and publicly afterwards to help other people be able to do some of this as well. We’re in discussions with Power of Music about how the training programme is shared after the completion of the programme. As we’re getting into year two, we’re looking at trying to tailor our three days and reduce it into a one-day version for different audiences within Hertfordshire, and then even a one hour awareness session, so that we can make that available, so people can really quickly understand what the advocacy is for music with people living with dementia. And then some tips and tricks, and come go have a go at these opportunities. So things like that, that we want to tailor for carers who are at home with a family member with dementia, or volunteers who might be supporting a community service for people living with dementia, as well, who can get a bit more opportunity and a bit more encouragement to try music in those settings. All of those different models we’re going to make available for other people to use. How we do that, what it looks like, we’re trying to tease out with the Power of Music campaign at the moment as well.
AH: Fascinating. So, watch this space in about a year, I guess.
ND: Absolutely.
AH: Can you talk a bit about how you’re evaluating impact?
ND: So with those really ambitious outcomes that we had right at the beginning, that was set with the Centre of Excellence. We wanted to work as hard as possible to get robust evidence, and in as many different formats as possible. So part of the way we are evaluating is to follow all the Music Champions who are trained, collecting some case studies from their work, and through notes from observations, and through talking to their setting managers and sort of gathering information like that. We’re doing more in-depth evaluation through four particular care homes, which is going to have a more in-depth research study taken with them, so there’ll be a range of further – I’m reading this to make sure I get it right – so we’ll be using the DEMQOL validated measure of health-related quality of life for people living with dementia. So, there’s a questionnaire there. There’ll be a weekly wellbeing checklist and ethnographic observations fitted in as well on those four set four care homes. There’ll be a more in-depth case studies. But the challenge, and why we, what we’ve spent a long time looking at and colleagues in public health, Idil and Georgia have been amazing from the evaluation team, trying to understand what evidence is being held by settings on their care databases on their healthcare records for the individuals. What’s already been collated through regular monitoring of staff in the settings, and so we can track that alongside residents who are, who have been having more musical activities. And trying to identify what the impact is, where it’s noticeable, and if it, how far it can be attributable to music activities. So, there’s quite a lot that we’re learning by trying to join up the systems where the information is, in addition to sort of looking for additional case studies and sort of more insight from individual members of staff. But the monthly Teams calls are fascinating in terms of what they share. The snippets of those conversations are really informative. We have published our first year one evaluation report, so I’ll make sure we have the link for that that you can share under the recording. There’s been really good progress, but we have seen that there are challenges, and we’re sharing those in the evaluation report as well, and we’re looking at recommendations around year two as well. We are finding through the evaluation of data that we’re collecting so far that there’s, for residents, there’s enhanced communication between the residents and their care staff, there’s improved mobility and physical engagement as well, and even in improved sleep and daily routines that are being noticed by care staff. The evaluation includes a range of different elements, so the evidence so far that we’re getting suggests that music became a tool for both emotional regulation and improved care experiences, which transformed staff-resident interactions. You can see sometimes where I’m quoting the report, just to make sure, so I get it right, but there’s a, there’s a lot in there. It’s really interesting, not least when you get into the more, more ambitious outcomes around what the ripple effect could be. How this could be translated elsewhere. The programme is showing strong early indicators of cost effectiveness in terms of reduced staff time spent de-escalating distress, fewer one-to-one observations required when residents are engaged in music, and they’re already starting to see, through managers as well, that there’s a long-term value from a trained music confident workforce in different settings, so it’s promising. We’ve got a lot more to collect, and the more in-depth case studies to complete, it’s really promising.
AH: And that’s just after one year, so that’s pretty amazing. What are the challenges of measuring wellbeing in this particular cohort?
ND: There’s been a few, and we’re still learning, and I’m sure it’ll be very similar with colleagues in different organisations as well. A lot of what we were trying to understand from the start was issues of around ethics and data consent for involving residents with dementia in research studies like this. So another of our partners, Music For My Mind, have been incredibly generous in sharing the experience that they’ve had of running intensive research projects in care homes in Hertfordshire, and how they’ve been approaching that. Which has been incredibly valuable in terms of supporting the wider programme and time-saving in terms of tips to things to avoid and other things to be aware of. What’s really promising is there is a willingness of all partners to look for more evidence to demonstrate the impact, because we’re having individual staff who are the Champions seeing it’s working, telling us it’s working, and then there’s their managers are also really curious how they could evidence that too, because they can see a difference. They can see the difference in the individual, but they can’t see the difference in terms of the paperwork and their sort of the tracking of the care records as well. So unpicking the difference between what you can see and some positive information and what the data shows is an age-old problem that everyone listening to this will be well aware of, I’m sure. And then I think we’ve got the usual institutional challenges of how to use data collection systems and forms and consent and wrangling some of those logistical challenges. But where this programme has been different from many I’ve worked on is that everyone wants to try and find a solution, so we haven’t solved everything, but they were getting through is really, really promising. Still, not as much as we would like, or there are sources that we’re really interested in trying to get as well, but the willingness behind it is really encouraging.
AH: Yeah, and there must be so much learning there that could also be applied not only in these settings across the UK, but actually applied in different, slightly different contexts as well with vulnerable people. How has your background in music education shaped what you do now? What’s sort of transferable? What surprised you? What do you wish you’d known then that you know now?
ND: I really like this question, because I was trying to unpick it. So, what I found transferable from working in music education is it’s still really important to find people to work with who are curious about finding different solutions or different ways of working, and potential colleagues who are can-do people, and are willing to try and find some new solutions. It’s also really helpful to find leaders who can give permission to try something different. That has been school head teachers or heads of music departments before, or other organisations, now it’s our Director of Public Health in Hertfordshire who’s really supportive of the programme and strategic leads in Hertfordshire’s Dementia Strategy Group who are really supportive of this as well, alongside all the other services that they’re working with. So we’ve got permission to try and that’s really helpful. The other element is that, as I mentioned, the start that music can deliver a range of different outcomes. That’s transferable from music education. I had an earlier conversation with a previous director of public health, talking about Hertfordshire having a wellbeing army of creative and cultural practitioners and organisations. So basically hundreds of organisations and people who are running arts groups, libraries, museums, who are improving health and wellbeing, even if we’re not very good at being able to demonstrate it. So, there is an untapped wellbeing army in arts and culture that can support all these different challenges. So, that was a really good conversation that we’re having with Director of Public Health then. So those are the transferable bits. What surprised me? Public health has an enormous breadth of connections. Their networks are fantastic, really broad. Unlike how public health is a, is a very positive collaborator. They’re not the only team, either. I keep bumping into people within different organisations in health and care who are really positive, collaborative, creative, and looking for solutions. It didn’t surprise me. It shouldn’t have surprised me. I’ve been just really encouraged, I think, by the number of people who were really keen to try something different to deal with the complexity of the health challenges, and the complexity of the health challenges definitely surprised me when starting to work in this field. I think also, it’s been what’s surprisingly encouraged me, it’s been relatively quick to apply existing expertise in working with care homes, whether it’s public health or adult care services, and all sorts of other colleagues and external organisations to thinking about music and creative therapies. I think that’s why the application for the Power of Music Centre of Excellence seemed to go so smoothly in terms of lots of organisations saying this is a no brainer. It has a benefit, we can see it’s a logical progression from what we’re already doing. How soon can we start? And that was fantastic to come into a new, a new collaboration of organisations that were saying things like that. You also asked, what I wish I’d known before I started. I think more time spent looking at the local health priorities for the area that we’re working in. I didn’t know that particularly when I was working in music, but with music and its range of applications, I hadn’t looked up half just health and wellbeing board strategy at that point, or the NHS ICB priorities at that point. So I would go back, I would be doing that now to see where the priorities are, and to see where music and arts could support specific communities in specific locations who might have particular challenges.
AH: [I was] just going to say that’s such a great technique, because I think it’s really, really hard to make the time to look outside your own silo and look at what other sectors’ priorities are, but if we want to embed the arts and use it in the wider world, that’s the first step, isn’t it? Understanding that wider world and really understanding their priorities and the outcomes they want.
ND: I’ve heard you mention that with other guests as well, and so I’ve got a quick hack that I can share. Wherever you are, find the local sport and physical activity strategy. So, work out, find out what the sport and physical activity priorities are for the area that you’re working in. You might have a sports partnership. Hertfordshire Sports and Physical Activity Partnership is amazing. They are such a good organisation to work with, so if you can find the local sports strategy, which is informed by insight, informed by Sport England’s focus on health and wellbeing challenges, and informed by a really broad range of organisations, take that sports strategy, cross out sports, and write creativity and culture. That’s your path going forward.
AH: Oh. What a great hack, that’s really, really interesting. So, what’s coming up in year two that you’re most excited about?
ND: The training of Music Champions and care homes continues, which is fantastic. We’ve got more homes to reach. The focus on those four care homes will produce some really interesting information and dialogue. But in addition to that, we have a – we have some time in the second year to look at the wider community and how we can share the resources and the messages from this focus on training programmes in care settings, how we can share that in the wider community with different audiences. So we’re looking at tailoring the training programme, as I mentioned, to a one-day version and a one hour version for carers at home or local community organisations and charities that we know are working with people living with dementia, but who are using music as one of the many things that they do. So, some tips on how you could get more from the music that you’re, that you’re currently offering in a very basic way. So, a web page that we don’t have yet, that will be up, sort of drawing in information, how music can help, here’s some tips and tricks. And then, if you’re really keen, here are some cultural organisations and music organisations in the county that you could go to, and that you can take part in live music making or wider cultural activities, and who are supportive and able to encourage and help people who are living with dementia and their carers to fully access their services. So, it’s a bit of local sign posting to actual activity, so that focus on the community is really exciting. There’s various different spin-off activities that are popping up with conversations of someone going, “Oh, can we try that? Can we look at this?”. Those are really interesting. Hopefully, we’ll be able to tell you all about those in about 12 months’ time. The particular one I wanted to mention was the Evidence Pie. So, with that big challenge that we’ve got in terms of how to evidence culture change around the recognition of the impact of music on the health and wellbeing of people living dementia. We’re trying to look to use the opportunity of this programme to ask what evidence is that different organisations think they’re looking for or need to look for or set their targets by, so we want to get a room full of hopefully happening quite soon. We’re getting a room full of commissioners of dementia services, providers of dementia services, and advocates and different organisations within the county together to look at what evidence are you looking for of the impact of your services on people living dementia. What does success look like? How do you measure that? And I’ll have the conversation from all sides to see if there’s some common ground on what the evidence might be, but also some missed opportunities or some missed understandings of what evidence could be available, all the qualitative information, how could that feed into and inform commissioners’ target settings for the future. How can we show that there’s a lot of robust evidence available that’s not currently being collated? So, the way we’re approaching that conversation is with something called the Evidence Pie. So, if you haven’t come across it before, it’s come out of some academic research and sort of wrangled into shape with the Health Determinants Research Collaboration, the HDRC in the Rhondda Valley in Wales. We’ll put a link into the chat as well. So, the Evidence Pie is basically a circle, a pie chart with six segments. Each segment is a different type of evidence, so there’s professional insight, academic research, impact measurement data, organisational data, population data, and lived experience. And that colourful circle shows you that there are lots of different types of evidence that are available to help you improve the decisions that you are taking. The evidence part isn’t just about decisions for health services or health and wellbeing activities. Why I like it is that it helps people take a couple of steps back and think about what evidence are we currently collecting in these categories. Where is our strength in the evidence we can pick up, but where might our gaps be? Where are we short of expertise in these areas? So, treat that pie chart, that circle as the top of a round table. Who do you need sat around that table, bringing that expertise?
AH: Oh, nice metaphor. Yeah.
ND: So I have to thank Wales for that as well. They’ve been using it across all levels of a council in their area. They’ve been working with voluntary organisations with it as well. We’re starting to share it in Hertfordshire with a range of different organisations to say just take this chance to have a fresh think about what evidence is, what you’re trying to collect, but also importantly for me, what would you always love to see? What evidence do you feel is missing that you’re never given, and how can we get that? So we’re using the Power of Music Centre of Excellence in Hertfordshire to endorse the Evidence Pie for the conversations we’re having with partners to open up some broader conversations about what that evidence could be, and to see if through the Power of Music project, this opportunity we’ve got, can we look at finding some of that evidence that is missing or misunderstood and try and sort of make some new connections around it. So we’re really interested to see how that conversation goes around the Evidence Pie. I’ll give you the link to add to your podcast page for that too.
AH: That’s brilliant, and I understand that there’s a real range of people involved in those conversations, not just the usual suspects.
ND: Absolutely, and that’s really refreshing. So, we’ve had our Director of Adult Care Services in Hertfordshire has given approval of sort of endorsed conversations through the Evidence Pie with a range of strategic dementia service partners in the county. So there’s sort of again that going back to the permission to try right at the beginning we’re getting endorsement from senior levels to say actually we think there’s something here we’d be really interested to see what this might evolve into.
AH: And then more grassroots people are involved in those conversations as well, so the actual carers and people like that?
ND: Yes, absolutely. So in addition sort of co-producing what the community elements of year two might look like, and working with Carers in Hertfordshire, another fabulous organisation, and there’ll be a range of different voluntary organisations around the county. Wherever you are, that are really good gatekeepers to be able to reach local residents, drawing them in to help residents have their voice in these conversations, will be happening as well.
AH: Great, I really look forward to finding out more about that, and watching as it progresses. We’ve come to the end of our time. So, firstly, wanted to ask you, where can people find out more?
ND: I’ll give you a link as well. The main way to find the Power of Music programme is through the National Academy for Social Prescribing, NASP. Their website is socialprescribingacademy.org.uk. If you go on to their website and search for the Power of Music Fund, you’ll find the Consortium, you’ll find the Centres of Excellence, and then you can spin-off and see all sorts of different programmes, like you mentioned, they are all the other big partners in the, in the country doing great stuff. You’ll be able to find them on there. And then Age UK Hertfordshire has a couple of pages on the Power of Music programme in Hertfordshire, our Centre of Excellence, what we’re doing. We’re also looking to add resources to the Memory Support Herts website, which is sort of community facing resources around music as part of year two. So I’ll give you the Power of Music Fund page and the Age UK Hertfordshire Power of Music page.
AH: Oh, that’s great. So, look in the show notes, there’s going to be loads of resources in there. Finally, I just wanted to ask you to share either three practical pieces of advice and or three calls to action for others working in music for wellbeing.
ND: As you can sense, I’ve struggled to get it down to three, so I’ve been sneakily dropping them into the chat so far. We’ll see how many other people others might people might spot. So there are two pieces of advice. One was going into conversations and looking for, looking for the curious, looking for the positive people, but really asking what could go right? So if we work together and we’re producing something, what could go right? Because then, if everyone’s approaching an opportunity with that positivity, then any problems that crop up, you’re trying to solve from a positive spirit as well. So, go into speculative conversation, saying what could go right by doing this. I’ve mentioned it a few times, getting permission to try from whoever might be the right people to give it, they could be permission to try something new from team leads, managers of daycare settings, the leads or board members of local charities that you’re working with, or directors of services and local authorities. Having some endorsement and permission to try from leaders at different levels of different organisations starts knitting together a really interesting collaboration, which is how Hertfordshire’s been so fortunate to get this opportunity. I think, then my, my third point would be a call to action around music educators connecting with dementia organisations and groups locally to where you are. We know that creative health is a big agenda, but it’s also happily where you’ll find people in a range of different community organisations who also know that creative health is common sense. So, there is national advocacy for music and dementia through the Power of Music campaign, but what I’m encouraging everyone to do is find your local dementia awareness lead organisation. Who’s running dementia awareness training in your area? It could be the Alzheimer’s Society, it could be a local Age UK branch. If they’re running those dementia awareness training sessions with community groups and local authorities and community champions around where you are, then they will have some fantastic connections. And you can ask the organisations that are running the dementia awareness training, how are they promoting the benefits of music to people living with dementia and their carers, and their family members, and other local service providers. It could be really interesting conversation opener. So, I wish you luck with that.
AH: Wow, Nick, that is fantastic. This chat has been absolutely jam-packed with stuff to think about, stuff to go and research and stuff to put into action, so thank you so much for all of that. I’ve got absolutely tons of extra questions, so I’m hoping you’ll come back on again to chat with me a bit more. But in the meantime, just thank you ever so much, and really best of luck for the rest of the programme.
ND: Thank you very much. I’ve really enjoyed this. Found it quite difficult to narrow down how to talk about it, but I’ve been inspired by your previous guests, and I hope everyone in your wider network, and all your listeners, are successful and lucky going forward.
AH: Oh, thank you, Nick.